It is interesting that we should be talking about politics, what are your politics, what do you believe?
很有趣的是，我们应该谈论政治，你的政治思维是什么，你的信仰是什么？

AW: Politically, I am for efficiency. Economically first. Until the 1980s the world was divided into two, people were either communist or capitalist. The communist model does not work economically, we all realised that, but the capitalist model in the modern world also looks to be unsustainable. You cannot ignore individual interests, but I believe the world evolves slowly. The last 30 years have brought a minimum amount of money for everybody in the west, the next step, politically, would be a maximum amount of money earned by everybody.
政治上，我是属于效率派。经济上优先。这个世界被分成两个至八十年代，人们不是奉行共产主义就是跟随资本主义。我们都意识到共产模型没有经济效用，但资本主义模式在现代世界上还是无法期待可持续性的。你不能忽视个人利益，不过我倒认为世界缓慢地进化。在过去30年里西方国家已经让每个人带来了最低收入，接下来，在政治上，反而将转换成让每个人只能赚取到顶限收入了。

That would have to be enforced globally, though, because if one country had a maximum wage, a lot of people might leave and go to a country where it did not exist.
这就是说在全球范围内被强迫的，试想想，因为如果一个国家的只有顶限工资，很多人也许会离开到一个并不存在的国度。

Exactly. But if you look at the world and what is happening at the moment, the biggest issue is the need for a world government. There is no other way out. It will happen, in 50 years maybe, but it will happen. Otherwise you just transfer the problem from one country to the next. It is not the case any more that you are isolated as an employee, that if it does not go well in the other country you are unaffected and continue to live well. Everywhere is inter-connected.
没错。但如果你看看世界上正在发生的事情目前，最大的问题是需要一个世界政府。没有其他出路。她将只能发生，也许会在50年内产生，无论如何她将会实现。否则你只是把问题从一个国家转移到下一个。这种情况并非像一名员工被孤立着，在其他国家出现状况时你能不会受到影响而且还能够继续生活得很好。现在的情况是到处都是相互联接的。

That is logical, the inter-dependence requires a unifying authority to make sure the rules are enforced.
这很合乎逻辑，相互依存是需要一个统一的权威以确保法制能得到执行。

Yes, we are all trying to live now as if that will not happen but in 50 years time Europe will be four per cent of the world’s population. Do you really think you can leave England isolated, France isolated? That’s impossible.
是的，我们现在都尝试认为那将不会发生，不过在50年之后欧洲将只有百分之四的世界人口。你真的认为你们可以孤立英格兰，孤立法国吗？这几乎是不可能的。

Applied to football, though, what you are saying suggests there should be global rules that are consistent. For example, you could have a maximum wage in football.
套用于足球上，虽说，你说的话表明了全球应该有一贯的法制。例如，在足球里您可以有一个顶限工资的框架。

It does not look like that at the moment at all. But people continue to accept that 50 people in the world own 40 per cent of the wealth. Is that defendable humanly? Can you accept that when two billion people have two dollars to live per day? I don’t believe that will be accepted for much longer.
到目前为止看起来并非如此。但是，人们将只能继续接受只有50个人拥有世界上百分之四十的财富。这难道是人力可拥护的吗？您可以接受有20亿人只能每一天赚取两美元的生活费吗？我不认为这将会再被接受了。

So how do you square these beliefs which are quite egalitarian, socialist even, with your work in football which is a completely dog-eat-dog profession, which many think epitomises what is wrong with the capitalist system?
所以你怎么妥善地处理这些相当于平均主义以及社会主义信念，使之符合于你的足球事业上，而且还是一个完全残酷竞争的行业之中，而其中让许多人有个缩影到底资本主义制度出现了什么问题呢？

I also think we live in a competitive world, and I love competition. People who are competitive should get rewarded. But the money I am talking about is nothing to do with football players. Football players are small earners compared to these people. They are not a world problem. The best football players in the world still earn very little money compared to people who really earn money.
我也认为我们生活在一个竞争的世界，我喜欢竞争。具有竞争力的人是应当得到奖赏的。但是，我谈论的财富和足球运动员们是没有任何关系的。比起这些人，足球运动员的收入是微不足道地。他们不能算是世界问题。和真正能赚钱的人相比较，世界上最好的足球运动员的收入只能算很少。

What I mean is that we have seen the first signs in America during the economic crisis of people revolting against the bonuses, and Barrack Obama said it cannot be acceptable to pay such a huge amount of money anymore. It is the first sign. Even in America, a pure capitalistic country, it is not accepted. It is the first time I have heard a president of the United States say something like that. It will take ten, 20 years but there will be common sense. In a competitive world not everybody can follow the pace, you will leave people out. We now accept that we must take care of these people. You cannot let them die in the streets, people will not accept it. And that is right, too.
我的意思是在美国的经济危机期间，我们所看到的第一个迹象就是人民反抗着高额红利，而巴拉克·奥巴马也表示过不能再接受支付如此庞大的金额了。这是就第一个迹象。即使在美国这样一个纯粹的资本主义的国家，也是不能接受的。这是我第一次听到了美国总统说类似的东西。这将要经历10或20年才会成为共同的意识。在一个竞争的世界并不是每个人都可以跟上步伐的，您将会淘汰一些人。到现在我们认可了我们必须照顾这些人。你不能让他们在街头上等死，人们是不会接受这样的事情的。这个也是公道。

You are articulating what Blair would call the third way. Competition, an efficient economic system which creates wealth and the people who are very, very rich give up some of that wealth as a safety net for the people at the bottom.
您正在阐明布莱尔所诉求的第三种途径。竞争，一个有效率的经济体系创造着财富而那些非常非常富有的人施舍一些财富作为在下层生活的人的安全网。

Maybe the wealth will be limited, yes. But you have to reward the people who make the world progress, the guys who invent vaccines, who invent new aeroplanes, because these are people who work day and night, not people who lie in bed waiting for the next day. People who work make the world live better and to reward these people well is normal. Yet they are not the people who are the wealthiest.
也许财富将有限制的，是的。而你必须奖励使这个世界进步的人，发明疫苗的人，发明的新飞机的人，因为这些人日以续夜地工作，而不是那些躺卧在床等待第二天来临的人。好好地奖励这些使世界变得更美好好的人是正常的。然而，他们不是最富裕的人。

So how do you rationalise that philosophy with the money in your sport? Not just player wages, but the cost of club ownership, of transfers?
那你如何让这哲学在您的体育事业的上的财政合理化？不单单只是球员工资，也可以是俱乐部所有权的费用以及球员转会？

I accept that what I say is in contradiction with our football world because the money looks as if it has gone higher and higher since I have been in the job. You compare the average wage ten years ago with today and it has gone up. But we live in a competitive world and that is why I say some of what happens now is financial doping. At Arsenal, we live with the money we produce.
我承认，我的说法是和我们的足球世界有所抵触的，这是因为打从我开始进入这行业，我们似乎需要越来越多的资金了。您可以比较10年前和今天的平均工资，它已经上升。但是我们是生活在一个竞争的世界里，这也就是为什么我说现在发生的一些事实其实就是财政在催化着。在阿森纳，我们就依靠我们创造的财富生存着。

Other clubs have artificial income, from owners. They do not live with the money from the game. We have gates, merchandising, sponsorship, television money, but nothing beyond that. What I fight for it to live within the resources we produce and to pay the players according to our real potential, considering the size of the club. That, to me, is normal.
其他俱乐部可以从所有主得到非正式收入。他们并不依赖来自竞技中所赚取的金钱。我们有门票，销售，赞助，电视的收入，但不会超过这些以外。我所追求的是在于考虑到俱乐部的规模，我们依靠着我们所创造的资源生存，以及根据我们真正的潜力来支付着球员的工资。这对我来说，是正常的。

But you still have massive debts.
不过你们仍然有巨大的债务。

We have big debts because we have built the stadium.
那是因为我们建立了球场所以才会有巨额的债务。

Yes, but debt is debt, according to Michel Platini [president of UEFA]. He does not differentiate between debt taken on to finance the transfer policy or debt that comes from building a stadium.
是的，不过债务终归就是债务，根据普拉蒂尼[欧足联主席] 的说法。他不会区分来自转会政策所需要融资或者建设球场的债务。

Well, that is a mistake. They are completely different things. When the stadium has been paid for the club will be bigger than before, with greater active capital because of it. Platini talks but he does not know that in London to buy the site cost ￡125m. In France, they get it for one euro.
嗯，这是一个错误。它们是完全不同的事情。当体育场对俱乐部的收入将大于之前，它会创造出更多的活性（活跃、流动）资金。普拉蒂尼会这么说因为他并不知道在伦敦购地皮需要一亿二千五百万英镑。而在法国，他们只需要付出1欧元。

Because everything is nationally or municipally funded.
因为一切都是国家或市政府的资助。

Exactly.
正是。

So when you look at Chelsea and Manchester City, how do you feel?
所以当你面对着切尔西和曼市你做何感想？

I am not envious.
我并不羡慕。

[ 本帖最后由 ahbombom 于 2009-8-16 07:19 AM 编辑 ]

阿尔塞纳·温格的专访（翻译在23～27楼，bluebell716转自阿森纳中国网）